Justicar Report
Chamber of Justice Communique #027a
On this day, May 6, 2009 of the Liberated Brotherhood, I the Justicar of the Brotherhood now announce the punishment that this Chamber lays upon Braecen Kaeth. Upon the conclusion of fair and just proceedings, this Chamber finds you:
On the Charge of Abuse of Power - Braecen knowingly and willingly used his position as Consul to unduly influence and manipulate Kara Rohana to commit match dodging in the Great Jedi War.
The Chamber finds you GUILTY.
On the Charge of Cheating - In manipulating Kara Rohana, thereby changing the outcome of the competition, Braecen did knowingly and willingly tamper with an official Brotherhood activity.
The Chamber finds you GUILTY.
On the Charge of Disreputable Behavior - Braecen knowingly and willingly used his influence and knowledge to exploit both the rules of the Great Jedi War, and his own members. In willingly committing such underhanded actions, Braecen's behavior has brought serious disrepute to his Clan and himself, and tampered with the Great Jedi War as a whole.
The Chamber finds you GUILTY.
Sentencing for the party is as follows:
-Official Letter of Reprimand
-Probation: One year
The terms of probation are thus:
-The guilty party may not receive promotion, appointment to position,
or any citation or honor of merit without the explicit permission of
the Justicar
_Chamber of Justice Communique #027b
Justicar's Opinion - 028 DB vs Braecen_
The Justicar received the initial complaint in the form of information about potential match dodging. The information concerned a situation in which the defendant, Braecen Kaeth, potentially instructed one of his Clan members to commit actions which constituted match dodging. This information had come from a third party, so the Justicar initiated an investigation to determine if first-hand evidence was available, which it was. Logs were obtained from several parties, in which Braecen directly indicated that he found the current gaming situation unacceptable, and that he wanted his member to curtail their gaming participation by making themselves unavailable for matches. The logs then show him seeking out another member of his Clan who was trusted by the gaming member to relay the message.
After reviewing the evidence, the Justicar determined that merit existed for the following charges: Cheating - for manipulating his member in such a way that tampered with an official Brotherhood activity, Abuse of Power - for using his position as Consul for the purposes of this manipulation, and Disreputable Behavior - for using his influence and knowledge to exploit both the rules of the Great Jedi War and his own members. The potential charges were presented to the Grand Master, who agreed on the merits, and the defendant was then notified of the charges.
The defendant and his counsel took the charges under consideration, then provided a plea of not guilty on all charges to the Chamber of Justice. The maximum potential sentence the Chamber would seek in this case was a one-rank elder demotion, letter of reprimand, and one year probation, which determined the trial type would be a Trial by Justicar (Section 8.03[h]). The Justicar then instructed the defense to prepare a defense brief containing their arguments, and submit it to the Chamber, which was promptly done.
The full Chamber of Justice then went into deliberation, reviewing the evidence and the defense arguments. The defense argued that the intent of Braecen's actions was not to have his member commit match dodging, and that the charges of manipulation were due to miscommunication. However, when the Chamber examined the logs, they determined that the defendant's intention clearly was to curtail his member's gaming...while avoiding the outward appearance that he was doing so - thus the use of another member, which was the manipulation. The Chamber determined that based on the evidence, it was more likely than not that Braecen had committed the crimes listed, and thus the charges met the burden of preponderance of the evidence set by the Covenant. After the conclusion of this review, it was the unanimous decision of the Chamber that the defendant was guilty on all charges.
The Chamber then moved on to the question of sentencing. The maximum sentence being considered for this particular case was a one-rank demotion, letter of reprimand, and one year probation. However, in the Chamber's discussion it was decided that the current definition of match dodging makes for a "hodge-podge" rule - and while it was clear the defendant had committed an act which violated the spirit of the rule and the competition, a one-rank elder demotion was deemed too harsh. Therefore, the sentence would consist of an Official Letter of Reprimand, and a year of probation.
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I'd just like to point out that she was still gaming the entire GJW. She just didn't play JO anymore because that's what she was advised to do. So the whole participating in other events is crap. :P
It shouldn't affect them, and hopefully it won't. That would be weak.
She was #1 on the team gaming ladder last I remember. That could potentially affect the standings quite a bit.
I wasn't aware that Braecen was a she. Unless the "she" in question is charged with some violation of the rites of combat or covenant, I don't see how Braecen's conviction would have any effect on anyone else.
The GJW standings will not be affected. There was a discussion about the points, and it was decided that it was not fair to punish an entire Clan for the mistakes of one member, or one leader. Therefore, the point totals will not change due to this ruling.
I've always respected the CoJ, but to deliver such a verdict and tarnish the reputation of one of the most loyal and capable members of the DB is unreal. Anyone in their right mind would know that Braecen would never do a dishonourable thing, and his advice made perfect sense.
His advice was against the rules. :P
So, reasonable doubt doesn't apply in the CoJ?
Alaris: Correct. Evidence standards were changed to 'preponderance of evidence' in 2007.
This is an injustice and a disservice to the Brotherhood as a whole. To take such an honored member whose sole intent was to allow another member to make time for participation in ALL events and not just gaming, and twist that intent by calling it cheating, is disgusting. We are supposed to be about encouraging participation in all events, not just gaming. Why should people game at all if it becomes compulsory during a vendetta, and prevents them from participating in other events?
The standard now set is that gamers are required to game at any request, and at the expense of doing other events. So gamers, beware that you become targets once on IRC, even if you only wish to spend time with your clan.
Call me crazy but if your not in #dbgaming, then you can't really be challenged and accused of match dodging can you. I never go there unless I'm looking for a game. Simple solution to a large problem, but I will agree about Braecen getting the short end of the stick on this one, but I will say I am glad he kept his rank.
<@Braecen> You can all remind her that she only has to accept matches if she is IN #dbgaming
<@Braecen> If she isn't in there, she doesn't have to do sh*t
I'm just going to point out two things:
1) We all "know" each other in an online environment. So all of our perceptions of each other can be very accurate, or even completely off base, because this medium allows people to display whatever "face" they want. Basically...don't take everything here at face value.
2) Phoenix - I'm not playing the log game with you, but there were many other lines in the logs obtained by the CoJ which indicate quite the opposite, and since you have seen the logs - you know it.
Granted, this is the first I've heard of this, but I must say that if the above quote is accurate, I'm quite disappointed in the Chamber's decision. Its a good thing I don't game.
How will this affect the GJW results/standings, if at all?
Advise isn't being forced though. If she was forced not to play it, then he deserved it. But he necessarily didn't say that she HAD to stop. He said she had to be in #dbgaming to accept challenges. If someone miscommunicated that, not Brae's problem. It even said in the rules that you have to be in #dbgaming to accept challenges. So he is being punished because he is reinforcing the rules?
I'll accept the lookout of the Chamber, but I highly disagree with the way it was handled. It's the Chamber of Justice (emphasis on the justice). No offence was intended here.
I'm not gonna get into the whole "was this a right decision and such" argument. I don't know enough about it, nor do I think many of you do so the whole "I know Braecen, and he wouldn't do that" argument is annoying. I'm sure many truly believed John Allen Muhammad was a great guy too, but that didn't stop him from shooting the shit out of the washington area. (sorry Brae for comparing you to him :P Was the first thing that came to mind)
Props to Kir though for having the brass balls to do this even though I'm sure he knew it was gonna provoke the wrath of the furries. :P
I do have a question about the sentencing though, and this isn't specific to this case either. It seems the only punishments I've ever seen from the CoJ has been the LoR, probation, demotion, or banishment. However, like this case shows it doesn't appear that all crimes can fit into these four categories.
Surely violating the spirit of the GJW deserves more than a slap on the wrist like this was. But again, I agree that a demotion of an elder rank doesn't fit either. It was some say a journeymen or even low equite it might be more acceptable but it makes me wonder why don't we have more options available. You commit a crime in real life you have more options than a permanent record, probation, imprisionment, and the death penalty. You have fines, community service, etc. Shouldn't something like a fine of a certain amount of guilty party's points be a reasonable solution?
Perhaps its too late for this GJW, but for the future can the CoJ look at creating alternative "solutions" for crimes of this nature; especially during the GJW? Just wondering...
Yeah! Everyone chime in with their half truths and accusations!
"He Cheated"
"Your Biased"
"OMG, Reasonable Doubt"
"Uh, this is the internet, everything can be reasonably doubted"
"My Clan is the best"
"Your Clan sucks"
"This great member who has done a lot for the DB has been unfairly treated by another great member who has done a lot for the DB"
"Shouldn't something like a fine of a certain amount of guilty party's points be a reasonable solution?"
20 points from Gryffindor for walking the hallways at night
Go Sarin, go Sarin, go Sarin, go Sarin. :P
This...probably just brightened up my day slightly.
You know, I KNEW I'd read something similar before. Here it is. Comment thread here.
Surprised nobody has said it so far, but.....
CONSPIRACY!!!!!!!!!
Thank you, that is all.
yawns
laf
:)
Don't place a comment and then hit reload, people.
I'll reload your face.
I'm not going to give my feelings on the issue here but I do have a question.
Now that CP has had the rug jerked from under our feet, will there be applications for CON or will the PCON automatically assume the position of CON?
Wow CoJ'd for advice. Makes sense.....or not?
I haven't seen the specific logs in question, although from what I can gather from the explanation, the "advice" given is not one a leader should be making...especially a Consul. Leaders are held to higher standards, as what they say and do can (and does) directly affect those under them. So if you have a Consul giving "advice" that goes against certain rules of the club, and they're found out, then they get hit. Everyone's responsible for their actions, so if it should come back to bit them, then so be it. Happens to most of us at one time or another.
Picking at one comment here or a word there also doesn't do much. Unless you are looking at it as a whole, there's no use in trying to pick apart little details.
I think beyond what's going on with Braecen in this situation some of us would, for our own personal security, like to know what constitutes match dodging. Does not being in #dbgaming so as not to get matches because I know I'm getting my arse kicked and so I don't want to put in a bad showing mean I'm match dodging? Does not wanting to load up JO because at the moment I happen to be playing EaW and I've played a zillion JO matches and I'm bored as heck constitute match dodging? (I mean, the point of the group is to have fun and I don't want to be forced to play some game that I'm not having fun with because I've done it to death.) I think given this decision, it would be good to define for the membership at large moving forward exactly what match dodging is and what it entails, just so none of the rest of us run afoul of it in the future. Maybe an announcement on what Exactly the rules are in this area would be appreciated.
I do have a question. Can we see the other logs other than the one Phoenix posted?
Also, even though the Consul is the leader of the Clan, we are all really human beings. The DJB involves writing, gaming, and tons of other things that involve more higher minded people. For example, Matt Adler didn't make it because he was young and naive. But almost all the rest of us have (with the exception of a few). I really think it all depends on the interpretation of how the comment was viewed. Basically almost all of us are adults here, if we get down and serious with it. In other words, we shouldn't have to do stuff like this. The subject at hand just seems too vague.
Are we now going to go to Kir everytime we think someone meant some harm when they say something, even if it didn't at all? Nobody knew Braecen's intentions. It was all assumed that his intention was bad because a person from Taldryan made a complaint that they were losing for once (I know, how dare that happen).
It just seems weird how a few people think he did a bad thing, but a lot more view it differently, and I know this isn't a democracy here, but without the members, the leaders are nothing. We are here to have fun. And if people want to be sore losers, let them, and stop taking everything so seriously.
Plus, we should not compare the real world crime's to Braecen's (depending on the view of what crime is to people). The second you compare IRC chat logs about a computer game to murder, the second you lose sight of the point of the DJB (to escape from the real world and to have fun).
I don't think anyone has compared any of the violations that can be committed in our online environment to murder. Honestly, to do so would be pretty disrespectful to the victims of horrible crimes such as that.
Not gonna lie, I'm all for stirring the pot, etc, but this back and forth has gone its course. One side has their opinion, the other theirs, its hit the wall, nothing will be changed.... Drop it.
<
Jac> Hey Kir, Tal has a problem with this GJW. We're losing. so I made this up: <Bra3cen> I'm going to tell Kara not to play Tal.<`Jac> Make it happen.
Warning:
1) That log is fake, very very fake.
2) I hate you, Tarax.
Actually, just so everyone's clear on this, don't blame Jac. He tried to have this whole shindig shelved. Even he thought it was wrong, and yet it still happened. So figure that one out.
Tarax! You just misunderstood Jac's intentions. He didn't really want Kir to frame Braecen! Stop comparing him to a murderer!
I found another one from the secret Tal channel:
<
Jac> damnit I hate Braecen so much! <Jac> Kir, I demand that you demote him!<
Kir> ok Jac you got it! <Jac> wait! that's too obvious.<
Jac> just an LoR and probation. <Kir> You got it. I'm your bitch!I am a Newish Member here with the BrotherHood,for 2 months I dont know the case or the person or persons in this case but i think this type of thing should never happen and being a Consul and an Elder is no excuse for this persons behaviour all I can say is
DO THE CRIME DO THE TIME
If nothing else this case has boosted DB activity. Never seen so many comments on one post.
[quote]that the current definition of match dodging makes for a "hodge-podge" rule - and while it was clear the defendant had committed an act which violated the spirit of the rule and the competition, a one-rank elder demotion was deemed too harsh. [end quote]
I don't know this person and I am only a DJK, but if I am to understand this correctly, because she/he is an elder, she is given "preferential treatment" of not getting demoted for this serious offense?
So does that mean, since I am below him/her, it is more serious charge and I would get the demotion since I am not an elder?
Being an elder is a big honor and responsibility. It states to others that I am resepected, know the rules, and follow them. This judgement slaps the CoJ in the face and all those below his/her rank is subject to "different rules" than elders. This also demeans all other elders that are viewed by people based on one's actions.
Where is the uniformity in justice? I can see if it was 1st offense, but to state "a one-rank elder demotion was deemed too harsh" states to us lower folks that with rank, you can break the rules/laws.
Am I reading this wrong?
Probably.
An Elder demotion is a vastly harsher punishment than a Journeymen promotion, it's not preferential treatment. A demotion from Elder to E4 will take a year at minimum to recover from, a demotion to JH would take a few weeks. Demotion is really a different punishment all together when you get to the Elder Ranks. At journeymen it's a few weeks' inconvenience, at Elder it's years of work wasted.
And by 'promotion', I mean 'demotion', it's late and I'm tired :P
As I haven't seen the complete logs, I can't really say what I think. I am sure this is the same for most others as well. To almost everyone who knows Braecen, as in being friends with him, this likely means the CoJ has acted biased.
From what I know until now, the decision is a joke. It does look like a made up complaint in supposed favor of Taldryan. I can't at all understand why this decision came to happen just from the info in the post. If there's anything in the logs to justify such a sentence against one of the most dedicated members we have, it would stop accusations of bias if the log is released.
So could we please see the logs as a whole? I'm sure I can get a copy somewhere but I would like to be sure I am getting the same unedited thing the CoJ had.
People tend to forget... Kir isn't obliged to release his findings to the public. As outraged as everyone seems to be, you're forgetting two things:
All Braecen got was a slap on the wrist. Not even that. Even if by some crazy deranged miracle he was convicted falsely, it's not like he was demoted to Apprentice and stripped of all of his awards. None of the GJW results/standings were changed...no one PROFITED from all of this.
It's not for us to decide if this was fair or not. It was for Kir, who has all the evidence with him. Everyone can cry bias until you're blue in the face and foam starts frothing in your mouths, but that doesn't change the fact that your opinions still mean dickshit. Believe it or not, the only people Kir and the CoJ owe transparency to are the ones directly involved with the trial; and that's none of you.
Stop crying BIAS, and for once have the dignity and maturity to trust the CoJ's judgment. He doesn't owe you an explanation, so accept the fact that he has more information and evidence than you do, and that he doesn't need your approval to carry out his duties.
The only person who can tell the Justicar what to do is Muz, and he seems to be alright with the way things are operating; so unless you want to cry BIAS at the whole of the Dark Council, you need to sit down, shut up, and go back to being a non-contributing zero.
Recent reports from many different people have been much worse than anything put up on the TT (which is not hosted on the DB site and is not an official DB document). Everyone can share blame in the types of comments being thrown around, so no use in actually pointing fingers.
Now, we can't really remove comments from reports, but I think this is effectively closed. There is a thread up on the DB forums if anyone wishes to take a look, although as stated before each side as their point-of-view and I doubt anything said will change that right now.
I'm not going to wade into all of this, I just want to point people in the direction of one quote from my opinion:
"After the conclusion of this review, it was the unanimous decision of the Chamber that the defendant was guilty on all charges."
Key in there on unanimous - I didn't make this decision alone. I was advised by the Hands of Justice, and we even brought in the Grand Master to have another person else look at the facts. And as a group, we unanimously came to a decision.
If it helps to pretend that I'm biased (which if you look back, I get accused of every time I prosecute someone...odd eh?) that's fine, I know the truth and I'm contented with that. But if you seriously believe this decision (or any CoJ decision) is made purely by bias, then you must believe in a multi-GM, multi-JST, multi-HoJ conspiracy...which frankly, isn't realistic.
Yeah! So just leave it alone or you'll find yourself in the TT being mocked and having your character insulted and degraded! :P
CONSPIRACY!!!!!
:P
As for the "made up complaint in favor of Taldryan" comment (which was just really pathetic, Ara... good work). The initial complaint did not come from Taldryan. Jac emailed Kir, et al regarding this issue and asked for it to be dropped because we knew that it would make no difference and would just cause further problems. So maybe take a few moments to think before spewing your idiotic bullshit to the entire club.
They are? Awesome, hadn't noticed that.
[quote]Posted By KE Impetus M'Nar - 5/7/2009 [6:39:00 AM]
An Elder demotion is a vastly harsher punishment than a Journeymen promotion, it's not preferential treatment. A demotion from Elder to E4 will take a year at minimum to recover from, a demotion to JH would take a few weeks. Demotion is really a different punishment all together when you get to the Elder Ranks. At journeymen it's a few weeks' inconvenience, at Elder it's years of work wasted.[end quote]
My point exactly. An elder is looked upon as someone who is seen to know better and are held to a higher standard than a journeyman. The punishment is set forth in the CoJ as a set punishment for ALL offenders. If not, then that tells me as a journeyman to not mess up now, wait till I am an elder cause I will not get in as much trouble cause of the rank.
BTW, it doesn't take all journeymen a few weeks to recover. It took me a year to get my DJK promotion and i don't want to do that again, hence, I don't break the rules.
Yeah, figures you'd twist my words around to fit your needs, Shadow. So typical, and so mature. Maybe every once in a while you should read what is written instead to assume. Otherwise you are the pathetic one. And as for "idiotic bullshit" - learn to understand a written text first before you believe you can be a judge of that.
I said "supposed favor" because the comments here seem to indicate that Braecen supposedly supporting match dodging has something to do with Taldryan, even though CP isn't close to Taldryan in the standings. And everyone upset about this decision seems to put the blame with Taldryan, too. Maybe just because it's always Taldryan's fault when people get upset, but that's just what's going on.
In any case, I've read the logs by now and I'm still confused, so yeah, publishing them wouldn't help much I bet. Until now, I was pretty sure what was match dodging and what wasn't, but now I'm not.
Annnnnnndddddd......
COMMENTS ARE CLOSED
Vodo's got a good point - this has now degraded into personal bickering, so let's end the comments here.
You guys can always email me and Muz if you have issues you want to discuss, or use the MBs.