Not everyone I play against WANTs to play 10 games. Schisca, for one, only wanted to play one with me other than the boring duel. And if you don't duel and try to find games for JK or BF even JA sometimes, or just want guns games etc - it's hard enough to even find one person to want to play you 10 games :p Not to talk of time zone problems.

Also, I don't think 6 games per person is always realistic. Take those only playing XWA and JK (yes, there are some). To get even close to a reasonable amount of games, they will have to play the few who have those games still a lot more often. This is why when I play Vail or Mousey, we cycle through many maps. With Mousey I can rack up to 20 games easily. I usually don't even enter them all, because I know it'd look weird. With my son and Kai, I play a lot more because of the custom maps. With DS, I usually try to get 3 games of each type, which means 9 games, or 12 with XWA . We'd likely play more but I don't think it would be counted. And you can't really say playing DS gives me much of an advantage because he keeps winning :o)

So what if some agrees to play 10 games with me and others don't? Does this mean the 10 games won't all get counted because I only played a few people so often? :o) I won't know in advance who I get to play how often.

I know you aren't anal over this, I'm just trying to show where the problem is for some of us. Coul you explain what got counted and what not? Because atm, it is very confusing. I am not sure others are exactly sure about how many games is too much. Not that I am disagreeing with you, and I think I understand most of it, but it would really help to avoid future confusions.

Just an idea why don't you also base it on the amount and type of opponents played? I mean, someone always only playing those he can easily beat (not applicable to some I know, as there's hardly anyone to match them), it is probably fishy. If people only play their own Clanmates lots of times, it's probably, too. Of course the finding opponents problem is present then as well.

Right now, I've adapted 10 games as the limit of what to report. Often means I played more anyway, just because it's fun. :o)

Yes, it is annoying, but the reverse is worse too. There are far too many people who would abuse such a rule by playing only the people they can beat or only their friends 50+ times and submitting it all. You know how easily I could play Chaos or Kraval or anyone Dinaari to 100 points in bryars? Theres 20 matches right there, and it takes roughly 20-30 minutes. SO that screws out people who can't manage to get that many matches from a single person.

You say that because Vail only has JK and XWA he should be given extra priveledges because he can't find as many opponenets... how is that fair to rest of us who own the newer games? "Oh well, these few people can do whatever they want, but everyone else has a set limit on who they can play" - Ya, that makes a lot of sense. Realistically, 6 matches against one person in one day is not going to ruin your activity level. The caps were put in place to stop people from abusing such an honor system and until the day that all assholes bend over and die, everyone will have to suffer the same. I'd rather 6 a day be enforced for all than just to a few select people because they are more active.

Personally, I've never seen Voldermort or Vail or Kaiann on IRC looking for MP games. Maybe if they were physically around they'd get more matches, hmm? Hiding in clan channels and playing only certain people is not only ruining any chance you have of getting better it also fucks over anyone else who would want to play matches. 31 people played during the Sunday Tournament. Forget timezones for second, as most everyone is on together at one point or another, 31 x 6 = 186 matches. We barely manage to top 40 matches played... thats just a few more than one match/person playing. And it's because certain people hide and bitch about wanting privaledges instead of actually trying to get matches. Don't be afraid to lose at a silly MP game - it WILL improve your skill, and it will make you not an asshole for standing people up.

Uh, my son is 13 years old and I will NOT allow him on IRC alone, period. He doesn't even speak enough English for that yet. He gets his games through me if he is still awake when someone is looking for games. And time zone really matters there because he usually has to be in bed 2200 our time. Monday school starts early. I'll have to find a way for him to find people himself when I'm not around eventually, but atm that is not an option.

As for Vail, I remember him sitting in the GMRG channel for hours on end trying to get games, with rather little success. By now he knows who has the games he has and plays in his time zone, so why bother? Contacting the people directly is a lot more effective.

Asides, the problem is not finding people to play as such, but people to play what I want to play. Only other people with many custom maps are my son (only for JK from here anyway) Kaiann and Mousey for JK. And I am dang tired of the same old crap all the time. And unfortunately Kaiann refuses to play on non-tourney days, so it's only these days I can really have fun playing those.

As I said, I don't duel. It seems impossible to get many games for guns or sabers FF. I'm not going to start duelling just for points because I don't have fun with it, save sometimes in JA.

You know very well that I play everyone or I'd not play DS :p But I had real trouble this Sunday to find anyone asides Korras, Vail, DS, smoke and my son to play more than one game. I'm guessing that at least half of the 31 people who played were only doing duels. I still got 10 opponents altogether, so I'd not say that's a bad result.

However, if 6 games would be a strict rule, I could give up trying to get in the top 3. I'd never find enough opponents. Not that I try often anyway, but once in a while it's a fun thing to do. And it already means staying up to 6 in the morning. :o)

However, I was hoping for BF to explain what matches didn't count, asides from the matches with not qualified people. I don't mind a limit for games either, but I think 6 is not quite enough.

I have never said 6 was a strict rule. I said around six was a good, average number. And if people are going extreme on that, and not trying to spread themselves out, then that's where I'm going to enforce the cap when I have to, plain and simple. I would rather not feel the need to enforce any kind of cap, but if people aren't going to use common sense, then I have to babysit.

Also, as far as "not getting enough people" to play, that might change a bit if you weren't so adamant about custom maps. Not many people care about custom maps. Most people like to be able to play on maps that they know the ins-and-outs of, so that they can find the weapons quickly, get to a hiding place, and make it interesting. Open yourself up a bit, don't be so strict about what map you play on. If the maps are "boring you," hey, sometimes that happens. Try to get people interested in other maps, but don't make it a requirement.

And quite honestly, maybe I need to do something about people being anal about guns. Maybe I'll talk to Jac and Mav, and perhaps I'll offer 2points per guns match, as opposed to 1 per sabers. We'll see.

Uh if I'd insist on custom maps, I'd never get any games lol People are too darn stubborn in that regard. I'd have exactly 7 games for Sunday ;(

Guns games encouraged would be cool!

There is nothing wrong with the normal maps that people play in JO and JA. I'm not sure how you can get bored with a map as it is not the essence of the game... you play to fight, shoot, etc. Not to walk around and go "ooh thats pretty" Custom maps are horrid at keeping things balanced with too much ammo, weapons, shields and bactas. Large shields and bacta tanks are annoying to have during a guns match because then it will just go on forever with people speeding away to shield up. I just love when I'm killing a guy then he runs away to get full shields again. That happens about 50 times in a match and you get fairly sick of it. I'm glad to see the JA server has already lost the large shields, and the Tal server will soon lose large shields and bactas mainly because of abuse. Seems some people needed an extra edge in saber fights so they use bactas through a loophole in the game.

No offense, Ara, but that is the main reason I don't use your server and why I don't believe people should. There is no resetting of shields when you enter a saber duel, so people stock up with 100-200 shield before playing and they have more than a significant advantage, plus those are the people that use bacta too. And I've caught people doing it because if I'm ever forced to play there I have a spectator... doesn't seem to register with the people doing it either. "Lets play 100/25" "ok" runs to load up on 200 shield "ready"

Shadow - if people are playing with unfair advantages and you can prove it, that's not something the server owner should know but rather the CoJ... when I played Korras in duels on Ara's server, we both made very sure we always started at exact 100/100. And that was on a map where it was all too easy to overstock.

As to you not seeing me looking for games much, that's because I am actually limiting my play to a certain group of people. Namely those I will have games with. It's useless for me to play someone like you - I will not learn anything, I will not gain anything but a frustrating 0-5 and I will wonder why I even tried. If players are so unevenly matched that the loser can try whatever he wants and won't even see the slightest bit of having a part in the game, it's not even a learning experience because there's no feedback about what was a good move and what a bad one. It all ends the same way - you get killed. At about the same speed too. Unfortunately those good players who try to restrict themselves to a level where the inferior player gets to take an active role in the game and thus perhaps also notice a difference between clumsy and less clumsy play are far and few. (This doesn't mean letting them win - as the vastly superior player you are in control of the game and you can determine how much room to give them. If they score more than 1 or 2 points, just step it up again!) So I'm not wasting my time on playing games than have no effect but to wonder if I even was armed. If some good players are around who are willing to actually let weaker folks have a part instead of just trying to slaughter them as quickly as possible, be welcome to earn any number of CFs off me, but I want to have the feeling of time well spent for it. But as it stands, I prefer to play those I have good matches with in which both sides have fun.

Kaiann: In reponse to yourstatement of "Namely those I will have games with. It's useless for me to play someone like you - I will not learn anything, I will not gain anything but a frustrating 0-5 and I will wonder why I even tried.", I'm inclined to disagree. When I first started out with JK, my most frequent opponents were Dread and Imp22. Both of whom collectively kicked my ass more times than I care to count. However, the more I played them, the more I found myself being able to survive longer and longer, and eventually start scoring kills on them. Watching, learning, and emulating is the best way to improve one's abilities, not being content to play someone who's skills match your own. Besides, were everyone in the DB to stick to merely playing those at or below their own level of skill, we wouldn't have much competition going on, now would we?

I will agree with everyone on there points, however I have not been a big fan of guns(mainly i get stoomped each time) but Arania actually made it fun, so if the higher ups deem the extra bonus of a point for guns matches I shall start playing a few extra people that like gun only, and as for getting kicked 0-5 each time, well Ive had my matches with Shadow where it seemed pretty one sided, and yes its gets discouraging and at times i say "wtf" but i still play the tough people with a hope that some day I will be able to rival them.....But I do agree that a cap needs set for the games...but with in limit too....if a guy can play a set amount of matches with each person thats fine and dandy, but ive seen players that just stick to there set group of buddies and play them and not others.....for 1 im always open to any match, If its a custom map I dont have then I guess I cant play them, but thats not my fault either....Ive downloaded several maps, and never installed them. So each person here so far has there valid points......but maybe its time to set a cap for the amount and let it be know..ICTE has 3 games per person...and I guess that was set for a reason....maybe a limit of 3-6 should also be set for sunday as well...Personnaly it doesnt matter, as its suppose to before fun..and when the time comes that gaming is no longer fun..then its time to quit and find something else.
But if anyone wants to play or even had out some pointers Im all ears.

OY people... You don't see me complaining, so keep my name out of your mouth.

Most of you are missing the point. Who gives a fuck about winning or losing, you get points and medals either way. But to exclude people from even getting to play - wtf join an online gaming club then? Please, someone explain that to me. Who actively goes out to join a gaming club and then selectively pick certain people to play. You lose you lose, big deal. When I first joined I played JK non-stop. I won my first EH Ladder with over 200 losses and 50 wins... It took 200 losses before I was even good enough to beat the the horrible players at BGJ NF, but I kept playing people like SwipeR, Sharad and Talon and I got better. When I could still JK there were only a handful of people I would lose to all the time, and I still played them because it was a challenge. If you lose 5-0 to someone each match, then keep playing them. JO sabers isn't about skill, its about reading your opponent and exploiting mistakes. The Guns comes down to aim, and it doesnt matter who you play because each time you do you get a little bit better than you were before. It's called experience - as the big RPG buff you should know all about experience. You do something, you get more experience, you get better! I don't get whats difficult with that concept.

No one in the DB is the best in the world. I suck against certain styles and certain people in JO. Me and Duga seem to go back and forth between who can win. The point is if you're going to want to play and be active then you shouldn't exclude certain people. The DB abolished that when they removed order-platform boundaries, otherwise no Sith or Obelisk would be writing in the Krath RoS. We have moved past that. If you aren't going to play certain people just because they're "better" than you, then why play at all?

Goodness. All BF said was try and watch how many matches we have against the same person, do something around 6 or so. :P Anyways, I've been playing a lot more recently. I still suck. I play Ben and he still beats me. I play Shadow and it's back and forth. If I win 20 games I'll probably loss at least 5 to 10 more. I play for fun, doesn't matter who it is. If I just played a few I know I could win over, it wouldn't be fun at all. Well, that's my thoughts. Take it as you will.

Oh and it took me years of playing to just get decent as I am now. I pure out sucked at JK. I completely sucked when JO first came out. Playing enough has helped.

Shadow:

There's one thing you are missing in your argumentation: Some folks don't learn the way you do. If you can learn something from getting trounced into oblivion, fine. I can't. When I tried to maximize my lifetime against high power opponents, I found the vastly superior strategy to be: NEVER ATTACK. Just stand, turn to face them and let the defensive saber posture make them do work. And I guess you'd agree this isn't exactly good playing :)

The best learning success is when you fight against someone who is superior but not so much superior that you can't even grasp it. Let's take this into a different example - you are a Karate master, 3rd black belt and you're getting a newbie into your group. How will you teach him combat after showing him a few techniques ? Will you fight him yourself, clobbering him to hospital while easily blocking even his best attempts at an attack ? Or will you match him up with an orange-belt student who has one year of practice ? The orange-belt will still beat our n00b - but he's not so perfect that a rare good attempt by the kiddo won't do what it's supposed to do. Right. You'll hold back until the newbie has understood enough of the basics to even comprehend what you're doing.

Here in the DB, we have what has become a subculture of bad players - and we're quite apart from the rest simply because there's too much gap between the best of us and the worst of the rest - especially because those few making up the in-between area rarely play. My offer still stands - if anyone of you feels like they're this "orange belt" or maybe "green belt" type of player or like they could emulate one, you have a lot of wins coming your way while helping those at the bottom actually understand something.

Just to point out - my servers are NOT intended as duel servers. However, next week, when I'm there again, I will fix the issue with the duels - I thought I'd done that already. And if it's really wanted, I can also take out the large shields and bacta, as it seems I'm one of the few wanting them around.

And yes, maps matter a LOT to some people. Always the same map makes me fall asleep. If the Tally and SA servers would actually put some custom maps in rotation, people could figure the maps out and have fun. Heck, with Gryffon's server, there were one or two very popular custom maps. discovering new stuff, that is part of the fun. Seriously, it is easy to get used to maps, and not many are really off in regards to weapon placement. Some are crazy for a reason - ever played an all rocket launcher map and you know what I mean :o)

As for playing people who keep killing you - well, the only issue I have here is when someone gets assholy over his skill. I THINK I got a bit better in guns - I actually killed DS 3 times this weekend :o) So I will keep on playing a lot, dying or not, hehe.

Ara, personally I believe there's only a tiny few maps where the shields/bacta get annoying and both are Raven originals. One is the Raven labs (weak weapons and way too many shields, both small and large) and the other is that CTF map with the "intersecting trench" middle area (don't know the name) where you can all too well camp near a flag and get shields/health to oblivion. In most other maps, a narrow escape to a big restore (which tend to be quite out of the way) makes for one of the more satisfying game experiences IMO. I agree saber matches should be fixed, but the large-shields comeback is a part of the guns play experience that I wouldn't want to miss (Bacta I am less fond of because you can carry it instead of having to run for it when you need it). You still have to get there on your last bit of life with a well-armed opponent running behind you.

Agreed. However, I'll do a poll among those who regularly use the server before I change anything about shields and bacta. If the majority is for a change, it will happen.