w00t!! Alright Muz! Glad to see it's finally done. Looks awesome!! :-D

Very nice...very secksy...

Although, one problem...for ACC character sheets, even elite forms are open to the subscribed Apprentice...might wanna fix that :P

From what I am told, the ACC will be following this, but it's going to take some time to code it through, like the saber stuff did.

Gungan grappling... makes me want to stab you with a rusty screwdriver in the kidneys. :P

Oh, additionally, except for the Gungan grappling issue, I actually think it's pretty decent, and another good reference along with the Lightsaber Guide.

Gungans are best suited to a grappling art based upon their environment, physiology, and strong martial culture. I actually ran it by a friend of mine who is both a Star Wars fan and a long time practitioner of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (a brutal grappling martial art) for verification.

I don't want to stab people based on it being "incorrect." As far as accuracy, I rather like it. But, I've taken ju jitsu (I prefer the jiu jitsu spelling, though), and am rather fond of the grappling arts. I am not, however, fond of Gungans, and don't want to have to admit studying anything coming from them. :P

Agreed, and might I add "wipe them out...all of them". Also, I think there's a typo under Klarin Chi. The text says it's a variant of Dulon, but the box says it requires the unrelated art of K'tara.

I dunno, my concern is that you don't need to learn stand up arts (which are largely ineffective) to learn to grapple properly.

They're not typos.

1.) The gungan art is the groundfighting art. None of the others are groundfighting arts, probably due to the ignorance of SW authors of actual fighting styles, and people in general having preferred standup arts save for the last five years or so, when groundfighting came into popularity.

2.) Having to learn other arts before moving on to other arts is a game mechanic. Having said that, very rarely do you see someone in a more advanced art that has not trained in other arts before moving on to the more effective arts. I've taken a lot of martial arts classes, and the highest percentage of 'I've never done any training before' guys has been in relatively common arts. And Oberst, all bull aside, the standup arts are hardly 'largely ineffective'. Have you forgotten how effective CroCop and crew have been? I'm sure your BJJ teacher would give you the business if you told him that standup was worthless, just like my instructors would if I told them that groundfighting was worthless.

Different tools for different situations. A hammer is great at driving nails, not so good for turning screws.

3.) Clarin Chi is a variant of Dulon, stylistically. However, in order to learn the very effective weapons defense system, one must have further training...training Dulon simply does not offer. This is why one must seek training in K'tara first. This gives an adherent the ability to learn the weapons defense that is inherent in Klarin Chi.

I understand where you are coming from, Muz, as we spoke about this last night; I can understand making using "stand up" requirements for grappling to reduce the number of people who "master" grappling early on. But in the same respect, it isn't very realistic to say you have to train in a stand-up art to then learn to go to the ground. You can start off training in grappling if you choose; some people just do not make that choice. I'd still prefer to see other ground arts in there, other basic ground arts required before learning an advanced ground art, etc.

But it can be used just like the Lightsaber skill points; spend them where you have to, so you can spend them where you want to.

I'm a fan. Great guide imo.

I have a few complaints however:

1) The use of Papyrus (or whatever font you used) is very hard on the eyes...makes things hard to read. For large blocks of text, a sans-serif font is best, while serif (and super fancy serif like Papyrus) is better for the headers.

2) Do we have an aversion to placing these guides online in an easier to read format? :D PDF is annoying and downloading a zip file is just as annoying. All that needs to be done is display the images right inline. I can write a quick rotating gallery script to make that possible (via JavaScript) that can be dropped right in the page if need be.

You used the hand from Guitar Hero. Seriously... I can still see the pick in his hand :P

Nice final product! Simply awesome. I was wondering what it would look like. I have to agree, I have studied a few martial arts myself (and taught) and very often students have training in another art, or background, or whatever. My first was Goju-ryu, and then I went on to Quan Fa, Muay Thai, and Tai-ji....

I also agree with Muz. I started out in Shito-Ryu then went on to Judo and Jiu-Jitsu before testing for acceptance with my current Cystema master. In the advanced arts many teachers require their students to have experience.

Oh and yaks...there's no guitar pick. :p

Damn, its what, almost two years since we first fleshed out the basic list of hand-to-hand forms, Muz?

Nice to see it finally brought together. Very nice guide.

American style MMA aside, pure grappler will always have the advantage over pure stand-up fighter. That being said - did I run into guys with other experience with my instructor? Yep. Did I have other experience? Yep, pankration wrestling, aikido (which is useless) and judo before I went into BJJ. Did it give me an edge? Not that I saw.

The outcome of a fight is the same, disable your opponent. While blows to the head will work, they're also unreliable to get in. I don't know about you, but I've seen very few street fights end with a knock out blow.

Orv: email me. I like the idea.

Yacks: I never played guitar hero, so i had to do a google search. Still don't know what you're talking about. Can you send me a link?

Goat: Yeah...like they say about good things coming to those who wait. :P

Oberst: Spoken like a true BJJ fanboy. :P Any martial art that trains in an 'alive' manner (that is to say that the members really fight in order to get better... not just play fight) gets pretty bloody effective in short order, more so if they have a lot of people to circulate through. Western Boxing, Judo, Muoy Thai all are standup arts that can do some serious damage, period. But I do think that one can't ignore groundfighting and call their curriculum complete... as much as I say that you can't ignore striking arts.

And to answer the question: I've seen a lot of people go down after a serious blow. Not the first in the fight, by any means, but still. I've seen a crapload of real 'street' fights when I was growing up in Chicago, and I think two of them ended up on the ground. The rest of them were just beat down, plain and simple.

But, as I said, It's mostly a game mechanic. If you want to discuss MA training or RL experiences, I'm on IRC quite a bit. ;)

Impressive...most impressive. Outstanding job, folks!

This guide makes me cry. Sticky ftw?