"I've made a lot of special modifications myself." - Han Solo
(Been working on my truck a lot lately. The above felt appropriate.)
In this report:
- Prestige Changes
- Fading Light Standings
- ToR Guild Changes & News
A while back we started to examine our Prestige System and noted a few things we wanted to fix:
a.) Prestige earned is determined more by Awards than all other sources combined
b.) Promotions do not award enough Prestige relative to Awards
c.) There is no residual Prestige bonus for positioned members (i.e. once you quit, that's it)
To address this we've implemented several changes that improve the system and reward members for not only their achievements, but their service to the club as well. Below is a comparison of the old system and the new one.
Old:
- Sum of values based on rank, awards, current position(s), degrees, selected titles, society ranks
- Mostly flat values - CF and CI have diminishing returns
- Recalculated the moment any of the factors that influence prestige changes
New:
- Tweaked values to increase Prestige earned by promotions, etc.
- Flat Position prestige from current position(s) is swapped out by a new formula:
* Build up prestige based on the number of days in a position, also takes into account any previous positions held!
* 1 year in a position builds up the same amount of prestige as the position was granting using the old system
* An 'advance' of 183 days is given on appointment, measures are in place to ensure correct settlement if people resign before the 183 days are up
* Ability to nullify built up prestige for a position term if needed
- Due to prestige now being partly time-based instead of being able to trigger the calculation on certain actions, prestige calculation will move to a scheduled process where the prestige of every active member will be on Thursday night (let's call it Payday due to other things that may or may not be planned to being calculated during that process).
What this means for you:
Your promotions are worth more Prestige than before. If you serve honorably in a given position within the club, you will now retain Prestige earned while in that position. The longer you serve, the more Prestige you retain upon retiring. Prior to these changes you simply lost the lump sum you were given!
Once these changes go live, some of you will notice your Prestige values alter slightly. Some of you may gain Prestige and some (like me) will lose some Prestige due to the new values and calculations. This system better serves all our members and is more rewarding than the one before it.
Also please remember due to the coding style, changes in Prestige won't be instantaneous. There will be a weekly "pass" as described above.
Enjoy this new system and remember to thank James, Valhavoc, Kalen, and the other Dark Councilors who worked hard to bring this to you.
With Pravus' release of the Bosthirda Run-On results, we can post our first standings for the Fading Light mini-Vendetta!
First Place - Taldryan - 90 Placement Points - 88 Armed Forces Points
Second Place - Plagueis - 50 Placement Points - 132 Armed Forces Points
Third Place - Arcona - 30 Placement Points - 152 Armed Forces Points
Scholae Palatinae - 144 Armed Forces Points
Odan-Urr - 140 Armed Forces Points
Naga Sadow - 96 Armed Forces Points
Tarentum - 32 Armed Forces Points
Congratulations to the winners! Remember, there are more events to come so hang in there and earn those Novae and Armed Forces Points.
Note: For DQ's and participation, we did not DQ the entire team if one or more members failed to meet the requirements of the Run-On. We only discounted those individuals from the participation ratio format that determines Armed Forces Points who did not meet the standards set (failed to post, did not meet word count, etc.) So if you followed all the requirements as an individual, your unit received full participation credit for your efforts.
The next planet and event are tentatively scheduled to begin towards the end of April. Right now we're talking about the 25th. That is not a hard date though and subject to change, but people were asking and this is the best I have at the moment. Please hit me up with any other questions or items I can help with.
As Valhavoc mentioned in his report we adjusted some of the ranks and permissions to enable Unit Representatives to help us all better manage the guild. Additionally, since Valhavoc no longer has an active subscription to ToR, I have control of the guild on my subbed account. Apparently I'm trustworthy. If you need anything, I play as often as I can, let me know. Val and the other Officers, Raid Leaders, etc., will continue to be your go-to's for anything you need, but feel free to look me up in game or otherwise if I can help you with something ToR-related.
Also, ToR is running a Double XP Weekend next weekend April 11th - 13th. So be sure to log on some alts with your buddies and level some characters for Pendants of Blood!
Have fun.
Things you might find useful that sometimes get lost in the shuffle of reports.
GJW XI Timeline - Tentatively August 2014
Fading Light Timeline - Subject to Change
Fading Light - Guideline Document
Dark Brotherhood Comic Book Archive
Dark Jedi Brotherhood Armed Forces Worksheet (MTOE)
Hit me up if there's something you need. People do this frequently and I'm usually able to help out fairly quickly.
"Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
See you out there,
R
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Interesting changes. Couple of thoughts/questions:
1) In the past few years, there was always sentiment (and outright statements) that prestige represented a snapshot of right now, whereas the credits system would (and now does) represent an historical record/summation of all past events. Given that the prestige system now includes previous things, how are they different really?
2) Can we get at least a partial breakdown (I'd prefer a full one - but we can't always get what we want) of the numbers associated with the prestige system? It would be very helpful for error tracking and filling in holes where the database may not take into account things that it should.
3) Given that time in positions is (like credits) now something that is permanent beyond wiki/database records, and actually has a benefit per member - how are plans going to work for people that camp out in positions and sit idle for months on end before being removed? Is there going to be a renewed focus on making sure people are actually active in their positions?
PS: Soft date is better than nothing! Thanks!!
Important stuff first: curse that evil VOICE person, now I need 100 more points to get above him again :P
My Prestige battle with Sarin aside, Howie's point about "position camping" is interesting, e.g. is the gain from camping out a defunct Battleteam too minor to matter, or create friction between DJK Bill and DJK Ben if one presided over a team with nobody in it...? Not that any easy answer springs to mind, hmm...
I was actually thinking of a much higher level, Goat, but that's a valid point too.
Goat: the changes to prestige haven't gone into effect yet. Curse Sarin afterwards :P
Also we need to ponder the question concerning the "Ability to nullify built up prestige for a position term if needed." I am assuming this will be a duty of the Chamber of Justice, otherwise we run the risk of people removing prestige from other people without proper procedures being follow.
Good questions, bud. Thank you.
1) The idea behind awarding historical Prestige for past positions was to not dismiss the work of those who'd served the club for various spells in the past. We wanted to make sure they received credit like we did with the credit system.
One way the systems differ (and Muz and others are the Possessions System experts so they might have more info) is that Prestige values will be used in the Possessions System to grant access to certain tiers of items you can purchase with Credits. Much like Legacy Levels in SWTOR allow access to perks and items you use Credits to buy. This is just one example. I get that for doing the same thing a member may earn Prestige and Credits. I don't see them as the same thing though. To me it's just a cool synergistic effect like many games offer where doing something nets you several types of bonuses.
2) Muz has it under lock and key and has asked it not be divulged. So that's his call. I just work here.
3) I am painfully aware of this issue regardless of said idle member earning Credits/Prestige or not. It's a problem we encounter period. We do our best to strike a balance between letting a guy have a life and not letting them sit in a job and do nothing for months. So this is an old battle. It's a volunteer club and we want to all stay friends and be cool, but yeah, "A guy's gotta do work, son," as Monty says. When the Prestige changes were proposed this was one of the first things that popped into my head. I will do everything I can/am allowed to do, to make sure someone doesn't "cling" to a position just to soak up pretend resources from the club. And as Vexatus mentioned, it's an issue at every level. As admins, we'll all need to monitor our fellow positioned DJB'ers and make sure if it's time to take a break and let someone else have a chance then that gets addressed.
As for removing Prestige: This is just the coding framework being welded in place to make sure we can do it if needs be. How we codify its use is up to the GM/DC, etc.
Thanks for the questions and comments. Let me know if I can help with anything else.
1) Fair enough. I don't think the inclusion of past positions/time in position/time in rank (I assume?) is a bad thing, really, I was just curious about the change.
It'll be interesting to see, but it is very difficult to make any sort of judgement call on the system without any idea of how the system is calculated. You guys often say you want help with things, and I'd like to offer (and I'm sure many of us would), but we can't even begin to do any background work with everything all locked down. Which leads to:
2) What's the reasoning in keeping it all locked down?
3) People can have lives, and take vacations and all that good stuff - but when things don't get done for a month? That person needs to be replaced. That does not happen in this DB and it damn well should. The fact that it is a "volunteer club" is utterly irrelevant to the discussion. It is a volunteer club, and if person A isn't cutting it, there are persons B-Z that are more than capable of doing the job.
Is this only for past positions going forward, or will it take positions held before it's implementation into account when it calculates?
1 & 2) Yeah. Best I can do. Not up to me.
3) Yeah, this is irrelevant to you or maybe others, but we don't see it that way. So it's a difference in opinion/management style. We try to do our best with what we have and what we don't always have is someone with the requisite skills for a given job. Sometimes all we have is A and it takes a while to find a B let alone C or beyond. We also try to work with people as much as we can given their real-life situation. It's hard. Frustrating. I get it. It's a battle and we fight it the best we can all the time.
Locke, it's retro-active. If you had a position in the database prior to implementation, James will have it add in the Prestige you would have earned as if the system had been extant then. That's my understanding. James can clarify further if needed.
As to divulging the values, i'm not keen on it, because it encourages a 'race to the bottom', where folks will do the 'bare minimum they need to X' where X = beat their competitor du jour. It's supposed to be reflective of work done, not just something to tick boxes on to get whatever they are after now. I'd like to think that we're beyond that, but experience has taught us all otherwise.
Further: people not doing anything for months is a problem... but you are drastically oversimplifying. Sometimes there are mitigating scenarios, as Raken explained. Sometimes, the popular perception isn't matching the reality of the situation (which is a different problem in and of itself)...and sometimes, 'Persons B-Z' aren't as qualified as they'd like to think they are. There's not a one-size-fits-all answer, to be sure.
And just to clear the air, I have kept this whole prestige restructuring at arm's length, due to the possibility that I would personally benefit from it.
3) Given that time in positions is (like credits) now something that is permanent beyond wiki/database records, and actually has a benefit per member - how are plans going to work for people that camp out in positions and sit idle for months on end before being removed? Is there going to be a renewed focus on making sure people are actually active in their positions?
Raken and Muz addressed this, but I think there are some positive benefits to the system. 1) I think leaders will be much more keen to fire/remove individuals who are idling. If we have systems built upon sitting in a position, I don't think any of us want to give free chicken to someone who doesn't deserve it. 2) I think their might be a way, one that will only be used in extreme cases, where prestige values can be taken back (Rage Quitters, Insanity Drunken Mirc Rage Events, ect).
^ I'm semi speculating on 1 and 2.
And Goat....you'll probably hate me more in the future. That is why I've stayed away from the Prestige discussion and re-valuation of promotions/awards/positions.
Nice report, Raks! :D
Couple questions: 1) Will Prestige gain from a position stop at a year and never increase, or does it continue to increase? 2) On the "race to the bottom," wouldn't actually letting people know, so we can see if there is an easy way to game the system, actually help fix this? The more eyes that can see something, the more likely we are to catch if there's a major problem lurking that would allow people to exploit.