Hello all,
We have taken an extensive look at the feedback on XP to date and made two very important changes. Namely, the rank thresholds have been adjusted and expanded to the Elder ranks, and we have removed diminishing returns from Cluster XP. As a result, we have had to make some adjustments to existing XP values.
I'll be quoting Dacien's thoughts here, with some minor editing:
One of the most controversial features of the XP system has been its application of a diminishing return curve to all clusters, such that the XP value of each additional cluster was less than the one earned before it. This was originally intended to mitigate the impact of members grinding huge numbers of gaming clusters, but it was also applied (less aggressively) to CIs and CGs largely for consistency.
Having a year of the XP system behind us, and after looking at the potential impact of a change, I've decided to end diminishing returns on all clusters, retroactively. Going forward, all CFs will be worth 1 XP and all CIs and CGs will be worth 5 XP. The result of this change will be a small to modest boost in lifetime XP for most members, and a massive boost for a handful of our most active gamers. CIs have a mostly small impact, but I expect that to change over time as RP drives more CI earning. CGs have been awarded in such small numbers that they don't have much of an impact, which is something we'll look to address in other ways.
Along with this change, CEs will be rolled into CFs. I was HM when Valhavoc proposed CEs as a PvE alternative to the traditional CF, which at the time was a revolutionary change for DB gaming. But between the recent implementation of casual gaming and changes to the GMRG that equalized the point impact of the two clusters, the CE's time has come to an end.
The new rank thresholds are as follows:
NV4: 200 -> 350
JM1: 500 -> 800
JM2: 850 -> 1300
JM3: 1450 -> 2150
JM4: 2500 -> 3600
EQ1: 5000 -> 6800
EQ2: 10000 -> 12500
EQ3: 20000 -> 23000
EQ4: 40000 -> 44000
EL1: 85000
EL2: 167500
EL3: 330000 (coupled with additional requirements)
EL4: 655000 (coupled with additional requirements)
This change covers a couple intentions, namely decoupling a member's first Dark Cross from their NV4 promotion so they aren't happening simultaneously. Secondly, we aimed to slightly reduce the promotion speed so that the JM ranks don't fly by in an instant, letting members acclimate a bit. With the cluster change, outlined above, XP gain has increased so we had to adjust for that as well. For the Elder ranks, we have been looking at XP as a sort of guideline when reviewing promotions since the release of XP to get a sense of where the threshold would end up. It's been successful from our estimation and as such we are now formalizing it.
With the change to rank thresholds, we have to perform some XP adjustments (which were discussed at length with multiple approaches and SO MANY SPREADSHEETS) as follows, again, I will be quoting Dacien with minor adjustments and this will look familiar to the Consuls that heard about this ahead of time.
Step 1: For all pre-XP elders, we will look back at the amount of XP they had at the time of their last promotion before the launch of the XP system and give them bonus XP sufficient to put them at the threshold of that rank at that point in time, if they weren't already. Note that post-XP elders do not receive this same treatment; many of them were already given bonus XP as EQ4s when the system launched, which our older elders didn't receive.
Step 2: For EVERYONE, we make adjustments based on the new XP thresholds. Everyone will get a bonus equal to the difference between the original and new thresholds for their current rank. For our elders, for example, that means all EL1s will get a second bonus of 5k XP (85k new threshold - 80k old).
Step 3: Diminishing returns are removed from clusters and CEs are merged into CFs.
As a result of these adjustments, you may see a deluge of awards and potentially promotions akin to the XP launch. This is a good thing. There is never going to be a perfectly fair approach due to a myriad of past reasons, the best we can hope to do is mitigate this impact as fairly and effectively as we can. We feel we have accomplished that to the best of our capabilities. James can address any of the more technical questions concerning this implementation, but we are happy with it and the Consuls didn't let slip the dogs of war when we discussed it. Which is a good sign, as they stand on the the side of the membership more than any other.
Thank you for reading and remember: any questions relating to Brotherhood policies or if you just want to chat about any concerns, feel free to reach out by email ([Log in to view e-mail addresses]) or hit me up on Discord..
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First!
Wooooo!
The outline is appreciated
Some history… CEs were mostly implemented because of a division within the Club’s gamers where there was a strong push for awards to only be for PVP activity. This made it difficult to balance the awards for the different types of gaming, and generated pushback when expanding PVE gaming platforms that were supported. It’s not a feeling I share (or shared), but the split of CF and CE I believed was the right move for the Club at the time.
I’m happy to see that the Clubs gaming community has moved past the phase where we viewed PVP and PVE activity as so different they could not be considered comparable. This shows growth and maturity of the Club, which is fantastic.
Merging CE into CF now is a good change, at the right time.
I love this member-centric approach of continuing to make the previously deemed 'inaccessible' ranks of Elder 1 and Elder 2 attainable by our average membership. I am proud of the work put forth by the Council, their staff, and the Clan Summit leaders in crafting a balanced approach that will prevent members from feeling that they'll never become an Elder 1 or 2.
Thank you everyone for the excellent work here!
uses calculator It looks like just around 2 400 competitions to take part in to get to Elder 2. Phew, 12 more years and I will get there.
This is awesome. I have been extremely impressed in the Dark Council and GM over the past year. Great updates to the club continue to roll out. Kudos to everyone involved with this.
Thank you Atra, team.
Thank you guys for your continued hard work for the club.
This is a good change.
I think these are great changes all around. And I want to specifically thank Bubba, Atra, and the rest of the DC for being very receptive to feedback from the Consuls on this as well. Never let it be said that the Powers That Be are just unilaterally making decisions from on high, as this is just another example of a very collaborative process. Kudos!
Agreed! Very happy with how collaborative this was all the way down, and I am very happy with these changes for everyone. Solid work!
This is pretty cool. As someone that thought EQ4 was already so tough to reach before XP system, it seems that the people that have been making the important decisions are making a lot more accessable to all members, even to someone like me who's mostly been focusing on themselves. Very pleased I decided to check the website again today randomly and see this rollout.
Amazing decisions made. Love getting rid of CEs. They were pretty redundant after PvP went the wayside. Also, I LOVE the extra 20k XP I just got :)
Oh wow! Kudos to everyone involved in this change.
Ever onward we march, focusing on the betterment of the community as a whole. Unifying Fire and Earth speaks to the atmosphere of our community, definitely, and outlining and making Elder more readily accessible for everyone definitely clears one of the biggest hurdles seen by people about 'endgame' membership, where there's little room for growth if they don't feel comfortable taking up places of leadership or administration.
What makes a good system isn't that it's perfect, it's that the people who run the system continuously look back at it and try to find ways to make it better and more fair. I'm excited for these changes and what it means to our Elders. As always, thank you for your work.
so I need 85k xp now for elder1? yay something to achieve.
Hey, sweet work here. Making those upper echelons more achievable by those who put in the time and effort, instead of being gated behind frustratingly opaque guidelines, is most excellent. Love accessibility and transparency. I applaud the work y'all have put into making things better and better over time. :D