Just a few moments ago I made some modifications to the Tier 2 Gaming Platforms section of the ROC specific to Diablo 3. The changes are specific to restricting the level range of groups in Diablo 3. The following clarifications were added to the ROC:
It came to my attention that over Gorefest certain individuals were using the Diablo 3 game mechanic to their advantage to earn Clusters of Fire at a rather insane rate. This was accomplished by having a Level 1 Character create a Torment 4 game, which sets all monsters in the game at Level 1 and grants the maximum CF reward for Torment difficulty. Then 3 other Level 70 Characters would join, and proceed to annihilate all monsters in their path, I assume while doing Rifts. Certain passive abilities alone, such as a Monk's Sweeping Wind or Chant, would one shot any monster/elite encountered.
Worth noting, a Level 1 game grants Level 1 rewards. No loot drops or meaningful experience can be earned in this situation. The sole reason for running this type of game is to earn CFs as quickly as possible.
We had considered a Level Restriction like this in the past. It was not applied to allow members to be rewarded for helping level up other members who were new to Diablo 3 or wanted to try a new class. Unfortunately the incidents over this past weekend have made it clear that this is no longer a viable path forward.
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Need a legal team for each part of the DB that has "guidelines" to ensure there aren't any loopholes :p
Good change given the circumstances. Sorry to see it happen, though on the bright side, if you're powerleveling people in D3, it is usually so quick it won't take long at all before they can join you at the appropriate level for earning CFs. :)
DB needs people to stop trying to exploit everything for such a minor gain. Exploiting to earn worthless CFs a bit faster? That is super pathetic.
Yeah...wish we didn't have to go out of our way to close every "loophole". If people didn't go out of there way to exploit everything our rules could be so much simpler...ah well.
I wish I had a Like button for each of the above comments.
Or, instead of a legal team, we can hearken back to the most important rule when it comes to gaming, the one that should be the guiding impetus for every rule. "Don't be a dick."
People know when they're exploiting. People know when they're violating the rules. It's not a secret. If you're actively doing something shady, just to get a benefit in the DB? If you're doing something that you don't want to tell EVERYONE you're doing? You're breaking the rules and you shouldn't fucking do it.
It's not that hard, and seriously? If you're one of these people who's been exploiting this? Just... be ashamed. It's a bloody CF.
I agree with the supportive comments above. If you ever use the words "we knowingly exploited the rules" you are wrong. It is that simple.
I think Yacks has hit the nail on the head. If you are gaming and you are breaking the good dude rule, you are wrong.
These comments have restored my faith in people.
:P
Everyone makes mistakes. I'm glad this will put things in check and that this was discovered quickly and handled efficiently. A few CFs aren't worth the trouble though
This is why we cant have nice things :/ people do silly stuff and think they wont get caught..when eventually they will.
So Im going to flat out say that I have taken a part of this. I have used people new to the game to power level for CF's. It helped them get to 70 quickly, it gave me CFs for my time, and it gave me yet another person/character I can game with in D3. Sorry to see that it came down to this, but meh. People will do what they can, just shut down how they are doing it and move on.
There are ways to power-level people without ridiculous CF farming. Power-leveling people isn't necessarily a bad thing, depending on your method of doing so. Don't feel too bad.
They did that here seraphol. The issue wasnt powerleveling new players but people that already have lvl 70 chars and are not new to the game starting a new char so they can "game" the system.
No I understand, and Ive helped people who are not new, but are starting to a new toon. I know what was done though, Im not that oblivious, and yes I was involved in it this weekend. Though I didnt realize exactly the huge amount that was submitted till I had someone tell me. Normally a power run from 1-70 on torment 6 (I run on 6 so they get more XP) takes about an hour and a half and nets between 30-50 CFs. The more people means the less amount of time.
It's all good. I personally don't think there was any malicious intent behind it. Honestly I would have bought both game if you wouldn't have talked me into doing it. In the end on my point, you gained another gamer. Like I said though I'm speaking from the perspective that anyone that helped me was just powerleveling me quick. I think I only earned 30 CFs after a few hours of powerleveling. In reality I could way more in other game playing by the rules. Again If there was malicious intent, than shame on them, but I believe most people had good intent. Either way it is a good eye opener. Thanks.
FYI after reading this post comes off wrong
Honestly I would have bought both game if you wouldn't have talked me into doing it. In the end on my point, you gained another gamer.
What I meant was I wouldn't have bought the games of I wasn't talked into how good they were for play and grouping up with other active DJB members who sold me on the depth and activity involved in the DJB from the game. I wouldn't have paid the money I did to earn a CF. It came down to the group gaming and fun from it. I honestly think most people wanted that and it might have went a bit far. Anyways happy Holidays folks. Enjoy time with friends and family.
I'm confused. Isn't using an exploit to gain awards consider cheating, which is against CoJ rules?
It isn't an exploit as far as in game mechanics. (in fact Power leveling is encouraged by Blizzard) It was also pointed out that it was not against RoC until today. We don't retroactively apply new policies. I really don't see it as a huge deal if there was no malicious intent.
DB really should write up a EULA like MMORPGs have. See the position they take on users exploiting in-game flaws. Because people go out of their way to find exploits in DB rules, systems, etc, we're handcuffed in what types of events we can run because we have to ensure, to the best of our abilities, that the events can't be cheated on. You see this regularly in gaming, you see this in events like puzzle and trivia (FL3), you even see this in fiction and ACC where "editors" basically write other people's stories.
Eventually we're just going to have to drop events that people can't stop themselves from attempting to game. That's how fun the DB will be if people keep "harmlessly" exploiting stuff.
Actually in the years Ive been in this club, Ive not seen people regularly cheating at gaming. The only exception being people falsely reporting matches that never occurred, or match dodging.
Anything in this club can be "cheated" at however, and part of the job of being in charge is stopping that from happening. Also we have an EULA, its called the Covenant. If those that be choose to they can take everyone involved to the CoJ, including me. This WAS a mistake, and nothing was done with any ill intent regardless of how some people want to paint it.
I have to say, Aidan mentioned puzzle and trivia cheating, and that has probably been the thing that has bugged me most about stuff I've seen happen since I joined the DJB. The winners of the sudoku competition completing it in under 10 minutes? Really? The entire purpose of a puzzle is to use your brain to solve it. So using a solver on it is just.. the very definition of a dick move when it comes to a competition. I spent hours on that damned thing. =P
It's really sad that all of this stuff needs to be specifically stated, but when you go and look at the kinds of things that have warning labels on them, it's really not that surprising, I guess.
I completely agree with the puzzle and trivia issues and with Misium defining using the solver on suduko as a dick move.
Related to D3. I don't think I painted this in anything other than fact. What I hadn't initially included was that this whole process was brought to me by someone who had participated in it, in hindsight they felt it wasn't right, asked that the CFs they (not everyone else) had earned from doing this over Gorefest be removed from their dossier, and requested a revision to the ROC. I truly appreciate that kind of honesty.
Powerleveling folks is fine. That's an entirely different situation. There were some situations this weekend were folks were powerleveled, the CFs earned were not out of line.
Don't try paint all of what was done this weekend as related to powerleveling people. I know the groups, I know your names, I know your characters levels. I know that in some cases over 300 CFs were earned using this technique over a few days. (Note: D3 CF cap of 210 still applies)
Ceiling Val is watching you D3urbate. ¬.¬
Im happy to see so many people support fair play :) brings warmth to my otherwise uncaring heart. Must be holiday seasons where im getting soft :D
Ok thx for the clarification.
Good Call.
I would like to say for the record that I too am sorry for the events of the weekend nothing was being done to really hurt anyone in here but more that a couple of us were trying our hardest to beat each other in friendly competition. We got caught up in trying to beat each other so we didn't take time to think too much about it and yea the conversation about it came up and we kind of pulled back to play other games. So for all intensive purposes val if you want to remove the clusters from the d3 portion of the comp then I am fine with it and I publicly ask for forgiveness from all of my peers.
From me that is I can't speak for others
Man, I always miss the cool cheater memos.
I know I was having someone power level my characters through a while back (like a month ago), but they were creating the games @ level 70 on Torment I. I don't even think we realized that there was a way to cheat the system as explained. I always assumed that the mobs automatically are the level of the highest level character in the game. That's what we get for being too concerned with getting a character to 70 ASAP instead of cheating the system! We have brought shame upon ourselves. =P
Yeah, because cheating is hilarious.
I don't understand the minor gain... If you were cheating or exploiting to gain cf's in GMRG and were using those to get to XI or XII that would mean you got there on false pretenses. Meaning those that did the work the right way would be left behind cause mainly they would not cheat. It is an honor to be in the GMRG. It is against the Covenant, and should be dealt with, as I am sure it will be... but How many other gorefests have been trumped up like this...
GMRG is not a right it is a privilege.
Normally my D3 power level method for a new char is for a high-level toon to make a game at the final mission and the lowbie runs through behind them on that one, then they join the high-level game on adventure mode and just die a bunch because the experience there is still worth it. At least that's still max-level content (and the CFs are still cool that way). Again - that's still running the hard stuff. If you get CFs that way, that shouldn't be a problem.
^ What Mirus just said.
I was also, partially at least, involved in this. Never once, however, did I think we were doing anything wrong or malicious. I apologize for doing it, as it has caused negative feelings, but we weren't doing it for douchebaggery or dickishness sake. We just wanted to have fun and I guess we should have asked ourselves if it was right.
Interesting. I did not realize that was the mechanic that D3 used. I just remember seeing the "XYZ has joined. The monsters are stronger" (or whatever the wording is) come up and figured that it changed the game to the difficulty of the higher level character. Very odd.
I'm torn on this about the rules. I support fully the "don't be a dick" unwritten rules, but from personal experience running RL leagues/sports, I'm loath to condemn people using gaps in the rules to maximize their performance. I guess the difference here is that the DB is usually creating rules from scratch for games that aren't designed around our system, whereas with sports the leagues/rules have been developed and heavily tested over years of matches.
This is what happens. Say you have a new toon you want leveled. You start an Adventure and Bounties game on Torment 6 (this is lvl 1 T6). Ill jump in the game with my lvl 70 and start running you through bounties. The monsters are T6 for you and level with you (the group leader). You get a metric shit ton of XP, and I mow everything down. At about 65 I normally have to drop it to T5, but your still gaining XP.
The point is that a game mechanic was used (doing what I stated above) to get CFs quickly. While the rule was unwritten, and technically no wrong was done, it was in violation of Fair Play. Either way, all parties have been reprimanded, and it wont happen again. However I will say that if someone still needs to be powerleveled I will happily do it. Another level 70 means another person I can grind with and get CF's with.
Yeah, but there are other, more fair, and actually faster ways to get XP. At that point it's on you to make the choice, IMO.
A little DGM note here. People have not been reprimanded. Muz, I, and Val don't make DB Judicial calls. We don't get to say what is done is done. When a situation arises that requires the removal of awards or the potential of cheating, we hand everything we know over to the Justicar. And then, without our input, Taig and his staff will make a determination on what needs to happen in terms of reprimands.
Cheating/exploiting is hilarious, because they'll inevitably always get caught. Karma.
Personally if the ones involved committed such crime before the law was made then technical a crime has not been committed.
Didnt one of the previous posts say that no one was to be punished cause of this fact?
From the covenant :
(e) Abuse of Power: No member shall use their position, rank, tenure or any other membership status to unfairly benefit themselves or others with rewards or promotions; or to unfairly influence any Brotherhood proceeding.
(h) Cheating: No member shall willfully or knowingly exploit, abuse, or otherwise tamper with official game play or official activity in the form of competitions, tests, or other activities.
By having one member start the event in d3 and manipulating the level of difficulty, by having one member stay out at the lowest level and not receive experience would be making it unusually easier, and making it so that one member received cf's for not doing anything.
Having submitted the request to a competition under false pretenses would be a violation in both. Also having leadership and master and students involved would also be a larger issue..
The ruse is to say they were powerleveling... when no levels were achieved...
Think Lance Armstrong, or Pete Rose...
Well I guess they need to strip 10-15 of us (and those in the past who have done this) of our leadership and apprentices in fear of us tainting them. I think this horse is dead, but if youve got some idea of what should be done then forward your opinion to Taig and the Hands. Otherwise please let this die, and what is being done be shame enough for us.
It's funny how these posts and the press conference of the Patriots are the same.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSX82E8UYCM
Its funny how you seem to keep bringing it up when its behind most everyone and a trivial matter. Maybe you need to be JST and let Taig retire?